Interview with Rev John Weaver - EC396

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[Rushdoony] How about the clergy? <audiopointer>6:01</audiopointer>
 
[Rushdoony] How about the clergy? <audiopointer>6:01</audiopointer>
  
==[Weaver] Well, I find that there are several things...==
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==[Weaver] Well, I find that there are several things==
  
 
[Weaver] Well, I find that there are several things going on amongst the clergy. One of them, I find that there is a separating of the wheat and the chaff. On the one hand you have a lot of preachers falling all over the country and it doesn&#x0027;t really upset me in that sense of the word, because my attitude is in one sense of the word God really knows how to quell them. In other words, I believe the ... the ones who are not God’s true preachers are being exposed and... and ... and are falling and the people are seeing that the problems in their lives stem from the fact that they are either not converted or they certainly do not know the law of God and do not apply it.
 
[Weaver] Well, I find that there are several things going on amongst the clergy. One of them, I find that there is a separating of the wheat and the chaff. On the one hand you have a lot of preachers falling all over the country and it doesn&#x0027;t really upset me in that sense of the word, because my attitude is in one sense of the word God really knows how to quell them. In other words, I believe the ... the ones who are not God’s true preachers are being exposed and... and ... and are falling and the people are seeing that the problems in their lives stem from the fact that they are either not converted or they certainly do not know the law of God and do not apply it.
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Now hers was an interesting story. Well, before the war she had married a doctor. I believe his... the man was in the air force and been stationed at different parts of the country. Then after the war her husband had been at the Pentagon and after close to 20 years of marriage dumped her for a younger woman and was able to bribe the children by offering them new cars and this sort of thing as he had money. <audiopointer>9:12</audiopointer>
 
Now hers was an interesting story. Well, before the war she had married a doctor. I believe his... the man was in the air force and been stationed at different parts of the country. Then after the war her husband had been at the Pentagon and after close to 20 years of marriage dumped her for a younger woman and was able to bribe the children by offering them new cars and this sort of thing as he had money. <audiopointer>9:12</audiopointer>
  
==Well, she returned to her home town, went back to what...==
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==Well, she returned to her home town, went back to what==
  
 
Well, she returned to her home town, went back to what she had been doing more than 20 years earlier, working in the emergency room of a major hospital. And I asked her what was the difference that she saw there after being absent over 20 years? And she said, “I can tell you best that while everything seems to be the same, it is different. When before the war I worked in this hospital in the emergency room, whenever someone came in injured for emergency treatment, they would immediately ask when they were ushered in, brought in on a stretcher if I would call pastor so and so and let them know that they were in the hospital.”
 
Well, she returned to her home town, went back to what she had been doing more than 20 years earlier, working in the emergency room of a major hospital. And I asked her what was the difference that she saw there after being absent over 20 years? And she said, “I can tell you best that while everything seems to be the same, it is different. When before the war I worked in this hospital in the emergency room, whenever someone came in injured for emergency treatment, they would immediately ask when they were ushered in, brought in on a stretcher if I would call pastor so and so and let them know that they were in the hospital.”
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[Weaver] Well, I would say, first of all, that what she enunciated for a while has gotten worse. I think that it went further and further, but then I believe there was a turning point that is happening now in the fact that there are the elect or the remnant that are seen that true faith is in every area of our life and that there is no separation and can be no separation. And slowly, but surely, this truth is being inculcated in people all over. And... and those who are, indeed, being taught the Word of God, who are assimilating the Word of God, it is coming back out into the forefront. <audiopointer>12:27</audiopointer>
 
[Weaver] Well, I would say, first of all, that what she enunciated for a while has gotten worse. I think that it went further and further, but then I believe there was a turning point that is happening now in the fact that there are the elect or the remnant that are seen that true faith is in every area of our life and that there is no separation and can be no separation. And slowly, but surely, this truth is being inculcated in people all over. And... and those who are, indeed, being taught the Word of God, who are assimilating the Word of God, it is coming back out into the forefront. <audiopointer>12:27</audiopointer>
  
==An illustration of this is I know a gentleman that...==
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==An illustration of this is I know a gentleman that==
  
 
An illustration of this is I know a gentleman that I mentioned to you earlier who is a probation and a parole officer who was asked to speak to his colleagues and he did so on the subject that prisons were unbiblical in what God demanded was restitution. And so here was a man literally, although he worked in that department, was putting his job at risk because he realized the truth of God was to be applied even in that area where he was working.
 
An illustration of this is I know a gentleman that I mentioned to you earlier who is a probation and a parole officer who was asked to speak to his colleagues and he did so on the subject that prisons were unbiblical in what God demanded was restitution. And so here was a man literally, although he worked in that department, was putting his job at risk because he realized the truth of God was to be applied even in that area where he was working.
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[Weaver] Yes. <audiopointer>15:08</audiopointer>
 
[Weaver] Yes. <audiopointer>15:08</audiopointer>
  
==[Rushdoony] That is the interesting thing...==
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==[Rushdoony] That is the interesting thing==
  
 
[Rushdoony] That is the interesting thing. The main line churches for the most part are not forging ahead the way the independent churches are. I know I mentioned to you that Dorothy and I were in one state in Cajun country where we spoke at this church which had grown up almost out of nowhere at a sizeable membership, two schools going all the way through high school with hundreds of students. And the work was phenomenal. It had arisen out of nowhere in just a few years. So it is a very encouraging sign.
 
[Rushdoony] That is the interesting thing. The main line churches for the most part are not forging ahead the way the independent churches are. I know I mentioned to you that Dorothy and I were in one state in Cajun country where we spoke at this church which had grown up almost out of nowhere at a sizeable membership, two schools going all the way through high school with hundreds of students. And the work was phenomenal. It had arisen out of nowhere in just a few years. So it is a very encouraging sign.
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[Weaver] And Scripture says that the borrower is indeed servant or slave to the lender. <audiopointer>21:04</audiopointer>
 
[Weaver] And Scripture says that the borrower is indeed servant or slave to the lender. <audiopointer>21:04</audiopointer>
  
==[Rushdoony] Yes...==
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==[Rushdoony] Yes==
  
 
[Rushdoony] Yes.
 
[Rushdoony] Yes.
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Dorothy was reminding me before the meeting and earlier today of a book written by Sir Henry Spellman in the 1600s, late 1600s. And he studied there all the families who participated in the seizure of search properties. And his thesis was: Whatever the Church was, the properties belonged to God. The money had been given to the Lord. If they felt the churches were wrong, they should have taken the properties and given them to another group so they would still be serving the Lord. <audiopointer>24:09</audiopointer>
 
Dorothy was reminding me before the meeting and earlier today of a book written by Sir Henry Spellman in the 1600s, late 1600s. And he studied there all the families who participated in the seizure of search properties. And his thesis was: Whatever the Church was, the properties belonged to God. The money had been given to the Lord. If they felt the churches were wrong, they should have taken the properties and given them to another group so they would still be serving the Lord. <audiopointer>24:09</audiopointer>
  
==And he studied all the families who bought those properties...==
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==And he studied all the families who bought those properties==
  
 
And he studied all the families who bought those properties from Henry VIII’s administration and they all ended up in disasters and death and were wiped out for the most part. And he said, “Lest someone think it was because the times were difficult, let us look at the noble families that did to purchase these properties.” And he said, “They are still with us. They were not under the judgment of the Lord.”
 
And he studied all the families who bought those properties from Henry VIII’s administration and they all ended up in disasters and death and were wiped out for the most part. And he said, “Lest someone think it was because the times were difficult, let us look at the noble families that did to purchase these properties.” And he said, “They are still with us. They were not under the judgment of the Lord.”
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[M. Rushdoony] Real Dispensationalism is actually very complex and... and very difficult to understand, much less to ... to defend. But a... a lot of Dispensationalists have had the effect on the Church at least of law versus grace, Old Testament versus, New Testament, because that... the most people in the pew can understand that concept. Do you have a problem with people saying, “I agree with everything you say and I think it is wonderful and I agree with your opinion on is and that, but I thought we weren’t supposed to obey the law. What about law versus grace? Isn&#x0027;t this anti grace”? <audiopointer>33:23</audiopointer>
 
[M. Rushdoony] Real Dispensationalism is actually very complex and... and very difficult to understand, much less to ... to defend. But a... a lot of Dispensationalists have had the effect on the Church at least of law versus grace, Old Testament versus, New Testament, because that... the most people in the pew can understand that concept. Do you have a problem with people saying, “I agree with everything you say and I think it is wonderful and I agree with your opinion on is and that, but I thought we weren’t supposed to obey the law. What about law versus grace? Isn&#x0027;t this anti grace”? <audiopointer>33:23</audiopointer>
  
==[Weaver] Well, the very first message that I always...==
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==[Weaver] Well, the very first message that I always==
  
 
[Weaver] Well, the very first message that I always preach is the abiding validity of the law of God. And I take and show how that every negative passage in the New Testament concerning the law of God can be explained in three ways. Either, number one, those passages which denounce the law as a means of justification or, number two, those passages which deal with the death, deed and nature of sin in relationship to the law or, number three, those passages which would refer to the ceremonial law which now we have the substance or the reality in Christ. And I will take them to a number of those contexts and show them in context that is exactly what the apostle Paul is doing.
 
[Weaver] Well, the very first message that I always preach is the abiding validity of the law of God. And I take and show how that every negative passage in the New Testament concerning the law of God can be explained in three ways. Either, number one, those passages which denounce the law as a means of justification or, number two, those passages which deal with the death, deed and nature of sin in relationship to the law or, number three, those passages which would refer to the ceremonial law which now we have the substance or the reality in Christ. And I will take them to a number of those contexts and show them in context that is exactly what the apostle Paul is doing.
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[Weaver] And the answer to that is yes, because just about everywhere I go I see Sprinkle Publication books. And whether it is on the life of Stonewall Jackson or the great revival in the confederate armies or ... or any of these books that he has given on the reformed faith, they are literally just everywhere and people consume that literature and he does an excellent job. And I must confess that even the conferences that he has there at his church has really done a great deal to stimulate the people not only in the faith, but in studying their own history and their heritage of the faith. <audiopointer>42:55</audiopointer>
 
[Weaver] And the answer to that is yes, because just about everywhere I go I see Sprinkle Publication books. And whether it is on the life of Stonewall Jackson or the great revival in the confederate armies or ... or any of these books that he has given on the reformed faith, they are literally just everywhere and people consume that literature and he does an excellent job. And I must confess that even the conferences that he has there at his church has really done a great deal to stimulate the people not only in the faith, but in studying their own history and their heritage of the faith. <audiopointer>42:55</audiopointer>
  
==[Rushdoony] Well, at our own conference this past Saturday...==
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==[Rushdoony] Well, at our own conference this past Saturday==
  
 
[Rushdoony] Well, at our own conference this past Saturday in Sacramento, it was interesting to see how many Sprinkle books there were on the book tables. He has done a great deal and someone ought to do a story on his contribution to the reformed faith in the United States.
 
[Rushdoony] Well, at our own conference this past Saturday in Sacramento, it was interesting to see how many Sprinkle books there were on the book tables. He has done a great deal and someone ought to do a story on his contribution to the reformed faith in the United States.
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[Weaver] Yes. <audiopointer>45:11</audiopointer>
 
[Weaver] Yes. <audiopointer>45:11</audiopointer>
  
==[Rushdoony] Instead of a rage against the Modernists...==
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==[Rushdoony] Instead of a rage against the Modernists==
  
 
[Rushdoony] Instead of a rage against the Modernists who had taken over the church, the leaders who were responsible for the turn around did it with grace and kindliness and a desire to rock the boat as little as possible. And I think that is one reason why they accomplished it so quickly.
 
[Rushdoony] Instead of a rage against the Modernists who had taken over the church, the leaders who were responsible for the turn around did it with grace and kindliness and a desire to rock the boat as little as possible. And I think that is one reason why they accomplished it so quickly.
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[Rushdoony] Yes, it is. <audiopointer>48:03</audiopointer>
 
[Rushdoony] Yes, it is. <audiopointer>48:03</audiopointer>
  
==What area of the South do you feel is the most significant...==
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==What area of the South do you feel is the most significant==
  
 
What area of the South do you feel is the most significant in this turn around?
 
What area of the South do you feel is the most significant in this turn around?
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[Rushdoony] Good. That is an interesting phenomenon. Ian Hodge who was here and we taped him about a week and a half ago said that public educator in Australia, Queensland, told him that the fastest growing movement in the world in the sphere of education was the home school movement. Even in out of the way places all over the world. It is proliferating. I have mentioned before and I am delighted to have the opportunity to mention again, but this year I have spoken at three California home school conventions. Mark and I went down to the one in Anaheim and for that alone, I don’t know what the final count was, but when Mark checked they told him it was not over yet, that is the registration, it was over 8000 in they expected maybe 10,000. That was one of the three at which I spoke and I don’t know how many more there were. I know there was a fourth one in Modesto and the newspaper said there were over 2000 there. So it is a phenomenally growing movement. <audiopointer>52:02</audiopointer>
 
[Rushdoony] Good. That is an interesting phenomenon. Ian Hodge who was here and we taped him about a week and a half ago said that public educator in Australia, Queensland, told him that the fastest growing movement in the world in the sphere of education was the home school movement. Even in out of the way places all over the world. It is proliferating. I have mentioned before and I am delighted to have the opportunity to mention again, but this year I have spoken at three California home school conventions. Mark and I went down to the one in Anaheim and for that alone, I don’t know what the final count was, but when Mark checked they told him it was not over yet, that is the registration, it was over 8000 in they expected maybe 10,000. That was one of the three at which I spoke and I don’t know how many more there were. I know there was a fourth one in Modesto and the newspaper said there were over 2000 there. So it is a phenomenally growing movement. <audiopointer>52:02</audiopointer>
  
==[Weaver] Well, it is really strong in Georgia as well...==
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==[Weaver] Well, it is really strong in Georgia as well==
  
 
[Weaver] Well, it is really strong in Georgia as well and so I am not sure about the other southern states. I know they are just from going around there, but living in Georgia, there are home schoolers everywhere.
 
[Weaver] Well, it is really strong in Georgia as well and so I am not sure about the other southern states. I know they are just from going around there, but living in Georgia, there are home schoolers everywhere.

Latest revision as of 07:20, 3 April 2013

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